Jessica - Ballard, Downtown Seattle, Portland, Tacoma 2009-13

Your Name

Jessica

Gender

Female

Which describes your role at Mars Hill?

Regular Attender, Member, Group Leader (any leadership role)

What Mars Hill location(s) did you attend?

Ballard, Downtown Seattle, Portland, Tacoma

What years were you involved / attending?

2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013

How did you first hear about Mars Hill?

Through a friend who was a member.

What were your first impressions?

The very first service me and my (now ex) husband attended was in Ballard. Mark preached a sermon directed towards men and husbands. Mark screamed half the service, calling on men to step up and take responsibility and cursing at abusers and fornicators. Having come from a long series of churches with mostly female leadership because men were simply disinterested, this was actually refreshing to me. I appreciated the fact that men were not allowed to slide under the radar here, that they were called upon to step up and be leaders.

Why was Mars Hill your church home?

I had just moved back to Seattle from LA where I worked on staff at another megachurch that was centered on service and sensationalist spirituality. I had been very burnt after seeing pastors who were more business executives than anything else make horrific and unbiblical decisions behind closed doors. I was tired of hearing shallow, "encouraging" words every week and wanted to learn the scriptures in depth. If Mark is any one thing, he is thorough. I learned so much and soaked it up like a sponge.

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a positive impact on you?

The most positive part of my time at Mars Hill was it's people. The pastors of MH Portland, specifically. My husband and I had moved to Portland to help start MHPDX and we were leaders there. 6 months later he had fallen back into his old life of drugs, stealing, cheating, manipulation and abuse. One night, the pastors came and picked me up, gave me a place to stay and then went back to retrieve all my belongings. I lived in my pastor's guest room for a month and everything I owned was in the church garage. Not only that, but they helped me through my divorce. None of them told me to divorce him, but none of them stopped me from leaving that abusive relationship. They helped me move a total of 3 times in 5 months. I could not have made it during that time without their support and love.

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a negative impact on you?

Mark preached that men should take charge and be leaders, but he left a lot of room for men like my ex to twist it into control and abuse their wives.

What would you like to have changed about Mars Hill?

I know that the Redemption program had helped a lot of people, but I believe that it was a dangerous place for those with unstable mental health due to trauma. Without the guidance of certified counselors, there was a lot of pressure to "tell all" and forgive when sometimes a great deal of time and counseling is needed. The Redemption program was like amateurs performing heart surgery. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't. Mars Hill didn't take things at a case-by-case basis, it was black or white, all or nothing. "You confess. You forgive. You heal." It's not always that straightforward or easy or even healthy to do things that way.

Which describes you?

I left Mars Hill prior to closure.

Please describe why you left Mars Hill and what that experience was like.

Well, the short version is that I began working late on Saturday nights and didn't want to wake up early to go to church so I found one that had an evening service. However, if I really wanted to I would have made it happen. With everything that my Portland pastors helped me with, they never made me feel indebted to them. I sort of fizzled out. They would check in with me here and there, but never made me feel guilty for not coming anymore. In the end, I really craved a simpler, smaller church. And one that had a real pastor preaching in front of me, rather than someone phoned in on a screen.

How would you describe the reason for Mars Hill's closure to an outsider.

Mark is a very extreme personality. He is over the top. He's human and interprets things the wrong way, shares his OPINION of the scriptures meanings. He was a part of something that got VERY big very fast and in this world of online media, he was severely attacked for his faults.

What's changed for you since your time at Mars Hill came to an end?

My beliefs are unchanged. Even while attending MH my beliefs had not changed much from my previous experience. I am, however, not as involved in a church as I was and probably never will be again. I love going to church, I believe it's important and I love being surrounded by other believers. But I no longer feel guilty for missing church. God's people are his church, it's not an organization. God can speak to me on my couch as much as he can in church. My foundation is in Jesus, it's no longer in what church I go to.

Regular Attender - West Seattle 2004-11

Gender

Female

Which describes your role at Mars Hill?

Regular Attender

What Mars Hill location(s) did you attend?

West Seattle

What years were you involved / attending?

2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011

How did you first hear about Mars Hill?

A friend of mine in graduate school was new to Seattle and had been shopping for a church in the area to attend. She settled on Mars Hill and recommended it to me.

What was the circumstance of your first time attending Mars HIll?

I was newly pregnant and my husband and I wanted a church to raise our family in. We were both raised in casually religious families but hadn't attended any church regularly since college.

What were your first impressions?

The church had recently opened the Ballard building and it was still mostly unfinished. It was huge, dark, and very trendy and modern inside.

Why was Mars Hill your church home?

It was the first church we had attended in years, and it felt progressive and interesting at first, so we were interested enough to stick around. As the years went on we met many wonderful people and formed deep friendships within the congregation. We felt challenged to grow in our relationship with Jesus and were captivated by Mark's passion in the pulpit.

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a positive impact on you?

The relationships we built within the congregation, especially with those in our community group.

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a negative impact on you?

The Song of Solomon and Real Marriage series nearly ruined our marriage. During SoS we were told that because we weren't having enough sex (according to the guidelines presented by Mark) and our sex life wasn't passionate and exciting enough (according to guidelines), we were in sin and not upholding biblical teachings on giving of our bodies to each other.

During RM we were bombarded by the book, the sermons, the community group video series and workbook, with the message being that our marriage was surely dysfunctional and both of us were to be confessing and repenting of our hidden sins. We were asked to do so in public during our CG, goaded on by our 24 year old CG leader. When we explained that we thought our marriage was functional and happy, and only had "minor" sins to confess to the group, we were labeled as being unwilling to allow Jesus into our lives.

It has taken years for us to recover from these accusations as well as from the damage they caused in our marriage. At the time we started to truly believe we were dysfunctional, because everyone said we were. We became suspicious of each other, wondering what the other was hiding that the rest of the church could surely see.

What would you like to have changed about Mars Hill?

I wish that the church had presented a wider variety of sources for understanding the gospel, whether through more pastors within the church or through encouraging the congregation to see Mark as a human whose interpretation was not necessarily Truth.

Which describes you?

I left Mars Hill prior to closure.

Please describe why you left Mars Hill and what that experience was like.

We left not long after the Real Marriage series, and after much prayer. As members, we were required to submit our separation from the church in writing and meet with our campus pastor. We lied about the reasons for our departure, saying we felt called to attend a church in our immediate neighborhood, because we were afraid of being accused of abandoning the church because we wanted to continue in our dysfunctional marriage. The campus pastor did not pressure us to stay, and wished us well at our new church.

The most painful part of leaving was wondering how our relationships within our CG would survive. I was afraid of losing the friends I left behind at MH and thought many would 'shun' me for daring to disagree with the church. In the end, only a few of those friendships were damaged at that time. Most remain strong even now. Some were strained further once MH disbanded and Mark was in the media for all his behavior.

How would you describe the reason for Mars Hill's closure to an outsider.

I felt that the church was no longer strengthening my relationship with Jesus the way it did when I first started attending. I felt that the church and the pastor had changed mission in a way I could no longer support.

What's changed for you since your time at Mars Hill came to an end?

My husband and I are now attending a new church in a denomination that was condemned by Mark during several sermons. We again feel challenged to grow in our relationship with Jesus and in our understanding of the gospel, and are actively serving in both our church and in community programs in our neighborhood. We feel free.

Member - Orange County 2012-14

Gender

Female

Which describes your role at Mars Hill?

Member

What Mars Hill location(s) did you attend?

Orange County / Huntington Beach

What years were you involved / attending?

2012, 2013, 2014

How did you first hear about Mars Hill?

Husband listened to Driscoll's podcasts.

What was the circumstance of your first time attending Mars HIll?

Husband wanted to go hear the Real Marriage series and we were looking for a new church as newlyweds.

What were your first impressions?

Based on the podcasts, I didn't want to go.

Why was Mars Hill your church home?

Because my husband wanted it to be and I couldn't put my finger on a concrete reason why we shouldn't go there.  I just had a bad feeling about it so I gave it a chance.

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a positive impact on you?

We made a few "normal" friends.

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a negative impact on you?

Everything else.  The teaching being black and white with no gray area left our marriage with what felt like no grace.  When I disagreed with Driscoll's interpretation of scripture my husband would say things like "are you even a Christian?  You just don't agree because you don't want to follow that part of the Bible."   Sitting and listening to that teaching every week, I felt like I didn't fit in and something was wrong with me.  I started feeling like crap and judged.  

What would you like to have changed about Mars Hill?

Mark Driscoll out of leadership and the chauvinist attitude gone.

Which describes you?

I left Mars Hill prior to closure.

Please describe why you left Mars Hill and what that experience was like.

We left Mars Hill because of the way leadership was treating people.  We didn't experience all the things folks in Seattle did but our last community group leaders treated us pretty badly.  With the last straw being the husband who refused to make eye contact with me when I would talk to him and who would only look at my husband in defiance of me speaking as a woman.

How would you describe the reason for Mars Hill's closure to an outsider.

They f***ed themselves with their bullshit.

What's changed for you since your time at Mars Hill came to an end?

Different church, not trusting church, suspicious of people who are too black/white on beliefs, re-evaluating what I believe and what is actually true.

Member - Ballard 2007-14

Gender

Female

Which describes your role at Mars Hill?

Member

What Mars Hill location(s) did you attend?

Ballard

What years were you involved / attending?

2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014

How did you first hear about Mars Hill?

Drove by it all the time. We had never heard of it besides that.

What was the circumstance of your first time attending Mars HIll?

We just needed to hear God's word.

What were your first impressions?

We heard the gospel.

Why was Mars Hill your church home?

We visited one or two other churches and liked how direct P Mark was.

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a positive impact on you?

There was a lot of truth about Jesus preached. I never understood God's grace until MH.

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a negative impact on you?

My self identity as a woman of God. That so many people can't go back to church now.

What would you like to have changed about Mars Hill?

Nothing. I think the fall of MH came because too many people idolized MD and/or MH, as well as the leaders losing sight of the true gospel.
MH didn't walk the walk very well.

Which describes you?

I left Mars Hill prior to closure.

Please describe why you left Mars Hill and what that experience was like.

We left when Pastor Phil was fired. He was one of the only reasons we stayed as long as we did. He was our light house, so to speak. 

We knew things were wrong before that, but we still had hope that the ship would be righted eventually.

How would you describe the reason for Mars Hill's closure to an outsider.

The leaders fell into the trap and lies of business over heart, condemnation over grace.

What's changed for you since your time at Mars Hill came to an end?

I have realized what a real church family looks like. A Seattle Church is awesome.

Please write anything else you'd like to add.

I’m over MH. But i know that a lot of people are not and it breaks my heart. They've lost sight of who God is, and what His providence is. Mars Hill was not God, God did not fail, He was in control. MD and ST chose sin and condemnation instead of God's perfect grace. That's all, happens everyday.

I hope your questionnaire can help some people. Thanks for doing it.

Group Leader - Downtown Seattle 2009-13

Gender

Female

Which describes your role at Mars Hill?

Regular Attender, Member, Group Leader (any leadership role)

What Mars Hill location(s) did you attend?

Downtown Seattle

What years were you involved / attending?

2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013

How did you first hear about Mars Hill?

From a friend who recommended Mark's sermons before we moved to Seattle.

What was the circumstance of your first time attending Mars HIll?

We lived near the downtown campus, so we visited on a Sunday.

What were your first impressions?

Music was good, people were hip, location was convenient. We were looking for a place to land in a new city, we didn't know anyone, and we needed a home. We were right out of college, young, and about to get married.

Why was Mars Hill your church home?

We were a young couple, coming from different religious backgrounds. I was coming from a Catholic upbringing, and my husband grew up Protestant. We wanted to be settled in a new city, and we didn't visit any other churches. We got involved in community group right away, and those were the only people we knew in Seattle. Once we got settled in the church, we didn't really look elsewhere. Our five years there went by quickly. We were young, immature and looking for people who were older and wiser to help us grow. We were sponges.

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a positive impact on you?

We learned a lot in those 5 years, which I think we would have regardless of our affiliation with the church. It the first 5 years out of college, a really formative time for becoming adults. But we did learn to read the Bible for ourselves. We learned that community is important. We learned to talk about things that are hard.

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a negative impact on you?

I'm still trying to process this. I don't trust people the way I used to. I'm far more skeptical than I used to be about church. We were lied to about everything. Lied to about where the money was going, what Mark's intentions were. We were lied to about what power the other leaders of the church actually had. Scripture was manipulated to reinforce Mark’s power and ideas. We were manipulated to give more money than we could afford. (I.E. If it’s not painfully “sacrificial” it’s not worth doing.) We signed a covenant to be members of the church. We kept up our end of the bargain, but Mars Hill did not. They deceived us, used us, took our money, and shut it down in time to get away with everything. I lived in a Mars Hill bubble - all my friends and community were part of that church. I didn't know hardly any people outside the bubble. Those relationships are mostly all gone. When we left the church, a lot of people ceased communicating with us at all. I started a business during my time there, and that was widely treated like a cute hobby. I had many people ask me, assume, and tell me I should shut down the business when we had kids. We went through a really tough two years of infertility while at Mars Hill, and I'm still working through with a counselor the bullshit people told me about my infertility while I was there. I was told that I was being selfish, that I was making "everything about myself" by grieving. I was told that I needed to put on a happy face and attend the (almost weekly) baby showers I was being invited to, because I was a bad friend for not attending. I was told that if I was hurting and grieving not being able to be a mother, it was because I didn't trust God and didn't believe enough. We gave of everything we had to that church, and in the end the leadership didn't care about us at all. They turned their backs on us and thousands of others.

What would you like to have changed about Mars Hill?

We were told constantly to trust our elders, a way to silence questions and shut down dissent. It was made really clear that women were not to speak up. If your husband was a leader in the church you were a “leader’s wife” or a “pastor’s wife” but you were never really allowed to be a leader yourself. I was part of forging the women’s ministry at the church, and even though I was leading women’s bible study groups and coaching other leaders, I wasn’t able to ever get a meeting with a pastor. If I brought up questions in a group setting, I was shut down. It was made very clear that because I wanted to be a leader and my husband did not, we were not okay. Even though we served the church in several capacities every Sunday and throughout the week, we were always made to feel like it wasn’t enough. We never felt like WE were enough. We never felt totally accepted. We felt like we had to earn the right to be cared for. I’m sorry this is so jumbled. Like I said, I’m still working through it.

Which describes you?

I left Mars Hill prior to closure.

Please describe why you left Mars Hill and what that experience was like.

We had been arguing as a family about leaving for 6 months before we finally did. I felt sick walking into the church, but my husband was (understandably) nervous about leaving. We had watched dozens of our friends leave, and had seen the cruel things said to them and about them. I know I even participated in saying unkind things. It was such a hostile environment at that time, with everyone on guard and everyone hurting. There was a huge emphasis on “leaving the right way” which included not saying anything derogatory to or about the church, not speaking publicly, using words like “God has called us to go elsewhere,” and leaving quietly. So we tried to do that. We sent the pastors a letter formally resigning our membership. There are people who have not spoken to us since. It was so hard to leave. We felt like we were losing our family. But we found ourselves in a place that went against our conscience, against what we believed, being lead by men who were doing immoral things. We had to go. Leaving was painful, but also felt a little bit like being freed from prison.

How would you describe the reason for Mars Hill's closure to an outsider.

Honestly I’ve tried to not talk about it with outsiders. It’s too messy to explain. It feels shameful to have been a part of. I feel foolish for not seeing it for what is was sooner. Mars Hill closed because Mark Driscoll had been lying and manipulating the leaders and the congregation, using people as a money making scheme to build his own empire. He ejected anyone who would stand up to him, and surrounded himself with yes men. He refused to accept critique and refused to hear anything about his own sin and failures. Instead of owning his mistakes and committing to change, he cut the rope and left the church to close.

What's changed for you since your time at Mars Hill came to an end?

We have not become members at our current church even though we've been going for over a year. We don't feel comfortable with that at all right now. We're learning that we don't have to earn being cared for at church, that's the church's calling from God not a perk of membership. We’re questioning the pastor’s conclusions about the Bible, and really trying to look at things in a different way. I’m seeing a counselor to help work through stuff. We’re focusing on the healthy of our family first, not the needs of the church. It’s taking time, but we’re seeing clearly.

Denise Hopeman 2011-13

Your Name

Denise Hopeman

Gender

Female

Which describes your role at Mars Hill?

Group Leader (any leadership role)

What Mars Hill location(s) did you attend?

Albuquerque

What years were you involved / attending?

2011, 2012, 2013

How did you first hear about Mars Hill?

Younger Christian friends who had attended Calvary Osuna in Albuquerque (Skip Heitzig - Pastor) had begun attending  City on a Hill (David Bruskas -  Pastor at the time) loved it and invited us to visit. Due to a previous church imploding we were looking. We attended and might have stayed, but shortly after City on a Hill merged w/ Mars Hill Seattle and instead of a preacher we were going to have podcasts. We left, continuing a search for a gospel-preaching church. After City on the Hill merged; they reidentified as Mars Hill ABQ, moved to another location, and we continued to hearing from the same young couple that "exciting" things were happening there.

What was the circumstance of your first time attending Mars HIll?

Having not found a gospel preaching church where we felt we could bring homeless people we were ministering to...we went for a visit at MH ABQ.

What were your first impressions?

Very very young hipsters.  The ratio of old to young was 5 to 100...most of the people were between the ages of 18-30.  Mark Driscoll was commanding, spoke boldly that "we are all about Jesus all the time” and used Jesus name like seasoning throughout the sermon.  He addressed sin boldly, although w/ a lot of humor.  He seemed arrogant but adorable and we fell for the bait.  We knew that there were questions as to his style and delivery but BECAUSE we trusted J. Piper and Paul Tripp, and Acts 29's affirmation of him...we trusted them over what the Bible and the Holy Spirit was convicting us as dissonant. We thought perhaps as an older couple we would have something to "offer" this younger group. They were very verbal about Jesus and sin...very candid about their sin w/out discretion.

Why was Mars Hill your church home?

We stayed and became members because of the energy there; and because they said "we are all about Jesus" all the time.  The MH machine put everyone to work serving in some capacity and shamed those who weren't serving. We had an opportunity to be "useful" in specific ways that we had never had in other churches.  Mark, my husband, became a Redemption group leader, and i was apprenticing to lead small women's groups.  We both worked in janitorial services and maintenance projects.

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a positive impact on you?

Daniel Shumann (elder) during a counseling session early on bringing our attention to two things:  James 4:1-4 and an example from the Biblical counseling course there that taught us how to identify an idol. "When a good desire becomes a demand that you are willing to sin in order to get..the good desire  has morphed into an idol."

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a negative impact on you?

Competition, shaming, heavy handed leadership, silencing differing views, heavy emphasis on confessing sin indiscriminately which lead to vulnerability later used against us. NOT being encouraged to compare all things to the Word of God but rather to accept leadership's interpretation of it. Shunning from friends when we left.  errible.  The positive has come from what we learned that we ignored while there.  We were not Bereans, comparing what we were taught to what the Bible said.  We fell for the Mars Hill Brand of how to "do church" and compromised areas we knew didn't agree with scripture.  When we did finally begin to ask questions we were shamed, discounted, harassed, manipulated, or ignored (depended on the particular leader).  We were shocked at the ignorance of Scripture among many of the people.  Though we have read the Bible through every year for 9 years since being saved...we took being under authority very seriously and routinely deferred our own conscience to what we were "taught" was true for MH church.

What would you like to have changed about Mars Hill?

The Gospel of Jesus Christ be preached; nothing added, nothing subtracted, that the branding which sustained the feeling that MH was better/superior than any other church in the area would be exploded. That there be open access to bring and interface w/ other churches in the area (very discouraged at the time). That serving outside MH in other capacities would have been allowed and encouraged.  We were made to feel our walk with the LORD was dependent upon our acceptance of MH methodology and it was suggest to people that going elsewhere would be a step down spiritually if not cause us to fall utterly away from Christ.

Which describes you?

I left Mars Hill prior to closure.

Please describe why you left Mars Hill and what that experience was like.

We left MH the fall of the imminent collapse; weeks prior. Reasons: Fraudulent financial practices came to light in donations to foreign missions, Mark Driscoll's buying a position on the Bestseller list, Mark Driscoll and David Bruskas crashing the John MacArthur Strange Fire conference, rampant disorder in the leadership, Methodology incongruent w/ Scripture.  Skewed theology that promoted brand loyalty over Biblical Truth. Peer pressure heavily instituted by group leaders to snuff out questioning or differences of understanding and thought.  We met with all our elders and gave each of them the same in depth letter explaining our personal griefs, sufferings, and Biblical reasons...i'm sure it was tmi.  However, they were a weird response of silence, defending MH, owning some of the problems, confused themselves by all that was coming down. We were begged to stay off of Patheos, shamed to be commenting on that website and my commenting there was followed by the pastors and my husband (who had given me permission) was brought in to "discuss" my involvement at least 4 times.  Each time they tried to change his mind so that he would have me stop interacting and telling our story, frustrations, and getting feedback from other online Christians w/ greater maturity than ourselves.  When we left...only one person sought us out to see how we were doing.  A female friend group leader.  She was very humble and kind and wanted to listen. She was grieved at the turmoil and acknowledged the rampant disorder in the leadership. Donovan Medina told us that most of the elders information came to them through articles posted on Patheos.  Warren Throckmorton had people inside MH leadership reporting what was taking place as it did.  There was no open communication route for the 50-60 local elders across the satellites.  In fact, we were told by them that they were discouraged from talking among themselves.  Everyone looked to Seattle for direction...down to how long to stay on stage to pray during a service.   As far as i know she and her husband are still at North Church (MH ABQ new name).  

How would you describe the reason for Mars Hill's closure to an outsider.

Exactly as i did above ^^^.

What's changed for you since your time at Mars Hill came to an end?

By God's grace we found an Evangelical Anglican Church in ABQ,  Trinity@theMarketplace w/ Pastor Michael Kelshaw.  He debriefed us through about 15 hours of processing what had taken place at MH.  Wise, godly, GOSPEL saturated man...adding nothing to scripture nor taking from it.  He led us into a deep understanding of gospel truth...what Jesus has done for us on the cross...what the Holy Spirit has covenanted to do in us in conforming us to the image of Christ...assuring us that in Christ and through his Word we have ALL we need for life and godliness every minute of every day. He taught  us this and it has been a life changer.  MH was utterly stressful all the time...drenched in half truths and misunderstandings of THE Truth.  Michael Kelshaw taught us this, and we remind ourselves of it daily. LIFE and JOY, FREEDOM and gratitude flow from it/HIM.  "All the imperatives in the Bible are, for the elect,  undergirded by the fact of God setting us apart as His before time began.  In Christ’s finished work on the cross FOR us we have a complete inheritance enabling us to fulfill his commands for our joy and his glory.  Set free from slavery to sin, we get to believe and obey, and our hearts desire becomes progressively more eager to!  When we fail we have an Advocate w/ our Father...Jesus who laid down his life for his friends. What a God! What a Savior! What a LORD and King!  LIFE is imparted to me NOT by turning inward on my own anxieties, fears, worldly lusts, temptations, and temporal conditions; but by turning outward to gaze upon the glory of Christ’s finished work FOR me and the covenant of his Spirit to be daily working IN me!  He has promised to use ALL things that impact me (comforting, discomforting, good and seemingly bad)  to conform me to his image and sanctify me for eternal life with him. No situation, no person, no relationship or lack thereof, no material or physical anything can add to, or subtract from my rest and peace in Him.  Nothing can make me more or less whole than I already am in Him. He finished work on the cross has given me EVERYTHING I need for life and godliness for every moment of every day until he brings me home! It's not a figment of my imagination....I have it all because I have Him. The Holy Spirit reveals every lie to the contrary…let my emotions and the words of men be lies…but God be true!! Hallellulia!"

Please write anything else you'd like to add.

That's a good start...If you want some of the confusing gory personal details i will gladly give you a copy of the letter written to the elders upon our departure.  When i read it now i see an incredibly confused, anxiety ridden experience in its 5 pages.