Seth MacGillivray 2003-11

Your Name

Seth MacGillivray

Gender

Male

Which describes your role at Mars Hill?

Group Leader (any leadership role)

What Mars Hill location(s) did you attend?

Ballard, Bellevue

What years were you involved / attending?

2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011

Which describes you?

I left Mars Hill prior to closure.

Please write anything else you'd like to add.

I wrote this on my Facebook page in November of 2014, a couple of days after it was announced that Mars Hill was officially closing down as a church. I think it still speaks to how I feel about my time there.

Eleven years ago, I walked into a dimly lit former warehouse with crazy art hung up everywhere, tattooed and pierced guys and girls handing out pamphlets, hard rock reverberating through the dark-painted walls, and a short, kinda thick guy up on stage yelling at everyone. The place was called Mars Hill Church. I was a new Christian, and had a view of most Jesus-followers as a cross between Ned Flanders and high school girls who listened to DC Talk. Here was something new, at least to me: an ultra-orthodox view of the bible combined with a liberal view of the world.

We weren't a small church by the time I joined – probably a thousand or so weekly attendees at that point- but we were still small enough to be the young rebel in town, and we all felt like we were a part of something special. We wanted to change the world, one person at a time; not just by our message, but by the way we lived our lives. Be the best tippers, be the best employees and bosses, be the best neighbors, be friends with everyone. Engage – rather than judge – the world around us. Be light, and be love. Be like Jesus.

We had gays and jocks and hipsters and nerds. We had the homeless who wandered in, grabbed a cup of coffee and a pastry, and wandered back out. We had former (and current) junkies, unmarried couples who were still sleeping together even though they got yelled at every week by Mark, atheists and agnostics who loved to argue but still came every Sunday, and even those Christians who listened to Christian radio. We were mostly young, and though we were full of hubris and the arrogance that can only come from those who feel like they're traveling paths never traveled before, we loved and revered the few older couples and families who (always) sat in the front, and the elder statesmen of our faith like John Piper, John MacArthur, R.C. Sproul.

Once I was asked if, were something to happen to Mark, Mars Hill Church would survive. It would, I said, because of other elders we had at the time: men like Lief Moi, and James Harleman, and Scott Thomas, and Paul Petry.

I remember meeting people that became friends that I still have today. I remember learning to love to read my bible, and debate theology, and learn old Christian hymns arranged in new ways. I remember plenty of dates that didn't go so well, and I remember meeting my wife in a Starbucks when she overheard me talking about my church. I remember conversations where friends, much wiser than I, told me to grow up and be a better man than I was. I remember outdoor baptisms, and I remember two college girls walking by in West Seattle, hearing about Jesus, and getting dunked, fully clothed, in freezing-cold water with tears streaming down their faces. I remember crying myself, at every single baptism I ever witnessed.

We all know by now the recent history: the consolidation of power, the public lying, the financial malfeasance, the exorbitant salaries, the character assassination of anyone who ever spoke out, the shady book deals, the growing call from former and current members and elders for change, and the last, final betrayal from a man who refused to submit to the very discipline he always preached was necessary as a Christian.

It seems, at this point, that Mars Hill Church will be only a memory in a few years.

Ten years ago, I saw a former heroin addict OD in the lobby of Mars Hill in Ballard. One of our volunteers knew how to care for him, and while we called 911, he attended to him. The medics showed up soon after, and carried him out on a stretcher, still unconscious but breathing. Two weeks later, that same man was back, carrying trash bags from the bathroom to the dumpster. He was there because he was loved by us, and he loved us in return. He was there because he was home.

Mars Hill Church may be but a memory in a few years, but that's the memory I'll hold on to.

Member - Albuquerque 2011-14

Gender

Male

Which describes your role at Mars Hill?

Member

What Mars Hill location(s) did you attend?

Albuquerque

What years were you involved / attending?

2011, 2012, 2013, 2014

How did you first hear about Mars Hill?

roommate's coworker

What was the circumstance of your first time attending Mars HIll?

Visited evening service to check it out

What were your first impressions?

"This video sermon thing is weird, but the sermon was really good, firmly rooted in the Gospel, and these people are pretty welcoming"

Why was Mars Hill your church home?

The people there wanted me to be a part of their community, more so than at the other churches I had visited

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a positive impact on you?

Community Group led to some very good relationships, friendships where sin was exposed and grace was extended. People didn't have to put on an act.

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a negative impact on you?

Very little, it honestly felt like the healthiest congregation I've ever been a part of (I have probably been actively a part of 4 other congregations in my life). Some of the bureaucracy was annoying (I was a volunteer in the Kids ministry), and some of the leaders were a little full of themselves, but neither of those things were worse than other places I'd been. The disbanding of the church was an emotionally stressful time, but I wouldn't even consider that as having a negative effect, because I feel like our congregation is stronger and healthier after having worked through all that.

What would you like to have changed about Mars Hill?

I wish that the church would have embraced infant baptism. I didn't appreciate the church moving our pastors to other churches. I would liked to have seen more preaching pastors developed, although I had the impression that there was such an initiative until the church disbanded.

Which describes you?

I stayed at Mars Hill through closure.

Please describe why you stayed at Mars Hill and what that experience was like.

The main reason I stayed was because of the relationships I had within the community at the church. I had built some really strong friendships with people who actually cared about me, whereas at other church I visited when I moved to the city, it was very difficult to get plugged in even though I tried. Pastor Mark's preaching was a secondary reason. I had never heard preaching like his, preaching that was solidly based in the Bible, but didn't feel stuck to political dogmas that the evangelical denominations have adhered to for most of the last century. It was the best I had heard of solid doctrine that was culturally aware.

How would you describe the reason for Mars Hill's closure to an outsider.

"Our pastor was a great preacher, but the growth of the church outpaced his ability as a leader. People on the inside got too ambitious and that led to internal rivalries and eventually the leadership started stabbing each other in the back and we had to disband. It got kind of ugly. People were gossiping to these bloggers online who just love to destroy things. That part was kind of painful because these bloggers made it sound like we were a church full of abuse victims, which totally wasn't true. A lot of us were really blessed by the church and were really sad to see it fall in such an embarrassing way. I think the leaders were envisioning a vast church that would spread far and wide, which was easy to imagine given the pace of growth that we had seen, but in doing that they lost sight of taking care of the local communities."

What's changed for you since your time at Mars Hill came to an end?

I think we had a good amount of pride that we were forced to confront, and ultimately that has been a huge blessing. One of the things we had to wrestle with was if what Pastor Mark said about Jesus ruling His Church was true, why would this church be brought down like this? I think the answer most of us have accepted is that there were a lot of people who idolized Mark, and that idolatry needed to be destroyed. A lot of us still have a lot of affection for him and are genuinely sorry about what he got put through. Ultimately though, Mark isn't that important for the health of our congregations, which is a truth that comes out of his own preaching.

Please write anything else you'd like to add.

I see such a discontinuity between the church that the bloggers describe and what it was like in our congregation. Granted, Albuquerque is very removed from Seattle, so maybe our perspective is different from the rest of the church, but it was kind of painful to read some of these jerks online flaming us out. I don't really know the situations associated the handful of people who actually do claim to be wronged, but I don't really feel like I buy all of their stories. They seem just like a bunch of angry people who were willing to nitpick apart anything associated with Mark or the church in order to find something worthy of blowing up and embarrassing us in public. I think that part of the reason Mark left without going through the "restoration process" was that he knew that as long as he and the Mars Hill name stayed around, our ability to be a Jesus-glorifying church would be compromised. I think he knew that Jesus didn't need him or the Mars Hill name to keep doing work, so he gave it up. Ultimately things are better now than they were before, and I think that my faith has been strengthened because of it. Mark's ultimate message was right, it is all about Jesus, and nothing the bloggers or pundits write is going to change that.

Maggie Davidson 2011-14

Your Name

Meggie Davidson

Gender

Female

Which describes your role at Mars Hill?

Group Leader (any leadership role)

What Mars Hill location(s) did you attend?

Downtown Seattle, Rainier Valley

What years were you involved / attending?

2011, 2012, 2013, 2014

How did you first hear about Mars Hill?

Before moving to Seattle, I had friends at my church who recommended Mars Hill to me. And now that I'm thinking of it, they were all men under the age of 30...

What was the circumstance of your first time attending Mars HIll?

I had spent about a year away from church following fall out with a close friend, what I felt was inauthenticity at the church I had been attending, and trying to heal from church enforced gender roles (ironic isn't it?). I felt God calling me back to church and I thought of MHC since I had been recommended to me a couple years back. I lived sort of equidistant from Ballard, UW, and Downtown, but Downtown's service times for my schedule, so I tried it out.

What were your first impressions?

I loved the worship music. And people seemed pretty friendly. Thought Mark's preaching was good (this was March 2011). I stayed afterward to go to a post service gathering and met some great people (a few I am actually still friends with) and it made me want to come back.

Why was Mars Hill your church home?

I loved the community I found at Mars Hill. I made so many friends there, and got into serving, which really connected me to the church. I felt like it was where God wanted me to be.

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a positive impact on you?

I learned and grew a lot at Mars Hill. People actually confessing and talking about their sins to other people was so different for me. I was used to the "pretend it didn't happen or hide it" school of thought. Redemption groups, though incredibly difficult, was also a big part of that. I didn't understand what repentance meant before that.
And again, I grew lots of meaningful friendships and relationships there. It also ended up being where I met my husband (and I definitely like him).

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a negative impact on you?

The last 1.5-2 years were really painful. It was difficult to watch pastors and staff that I cared about leaving the church, and for a significant period of time not be allowed to know why. There was so much lying, secret keeping and back pedaling done by Mars Hill on what was communicated to members that it made your head spin. And some times, I could understand why. For people that loved the church and wanted to see it prosper and really wanted to believe that Mark wasn't doing bad things, even if you knew things were wrong or off, you still wanted to defend the church.
Also, I was a member of Rainier Valley where we had to deal with all the crud following Willie's departure. I was also an intern there, and the staff being incredibly immature and not knowing what they were doing we were taken advantage of. There was also the absolute garbage that was the pre marriage class we took (done at RV). The stress of "traditional gender roles" which placed far more burden on the woman (which was universal in MHC) disgusted both myself and my husband. Even before we took the class we were asked to fill out this insanely invasive form which we wanted to talk to the leaders about, but they were unwilling to do so. We were told to just "submit to their authority" in the matter. One of the leaders also, in all seriousness, called my husband, then fiancée, a special snowflake because he was challenging the matter.

What would you like to have changed about Mars Hill?

The fixation with "authority". If you disagreed, or challenged something you were dismissed as being divisive and the matter was never considered.
The open handed issues that were actually closed handed issues like complementarian vs egalitarian. Things they disagreed with were so talked down that you were essentially a heretic for holding a different viewpoint.

Which describes you?

I stayed at Mars Hill through closure.

Please describe why you stayed at Mars Hill and what that experience was like.

We stayed because we felt God calling us to do so. And it was incredibly difficult. We wanted to leave, but also wanted to love the other people remaining because not everyone understood what was going on. As a couple we had a lot of fights about staying vs leaving. And there was the weird awkwardness of when other people would leave the church.

How would you describe the reason for Mars Hill's closure to an outsider.

Mars Hill was a massive multi campus mega church that had overbearing and abusive tendencies which were dictated by the lead pastor, Mark Driscoll. The way it was run was monetarily unsustainable, so when many pastors left and and the massive failings of Mark came to light, he ran and the church couldn't stay open.

What's changed for you since your time at Mars Hill came to an end?

There were unfortunately things we still couldn't say because we went to Rainier Valley post Mars Hill (it still operates in some core beliefs and convictions as a mini Mars Hill). But now we've moved to a different city and now attends church that matches with our convictions. We believe, and can openly now say, an egalitarian viewpoint in marriage and the way the church is run. Women should be in leadership and should be pastors (our current church's staff has 2). We have believe in inclusivity for LGBT people. We feel so much better and freer being at a church that does a lot of things we used to love about Mars Hill (serving the city, an [actual] fatherly pastor) but does it in a way that's sustainable and is about Jesus. Our pastor and staff isn't out to make money, or make their names great.

Please write anything else you'd like to add.

Overall, I did love Mars Hill, and for a while I wanted to believe the best about Mark and the situation. But I really am ultimately glad the Titanic sank, and I hope and pray that some day he actually changes, and that the damage caused by the church can be healed in the hearts of those it offended.

Kat - Ballard, Downtown Seattle 2006-12

Your Name

Kat

Gender

Female

Which describes your role at Mars Hill?

Member

What Mars Hill location(s) did you attend?

Ballard, Downtown Seattle

What years were you involved / attending?

2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012

How did you first hear about Mars Hill?

My roommate attended.

What was the circumstance of your first time attending Mars HIll?

I came to a community group with a roommate, and then the next week visited the Ballard campus.

What were your first impressions?

It was very unique to me. I was used to churches with older traditions and the people in the pulpit didn't have tattoos or use language like me. It was really refreshing to me to see a well put together service when I had been mostly involved with unorganized small churches.

Why was Mars Hill your church home?

When I started attending, I wasn't aware of the controversy surrounding the church and met some great people. By the time I started hearing complaints about the church, I had already been involved with a great group of people so it was hard for me to see other perspectives as valid.

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a positive impact on you?

For my family, it is mostly community. I met my partner at Mars hill, married him and had kids there. All of our friends were from the church and it was most of our social life.

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a negative impact on you?

I am no longer a believer, so looking back on my years as a fundamentalist is painful. I can see now that the concerns that those outside of the church brought to me were real. Mars Hill taught me everything could be answered and explained, and when I realized that isn't how the gospel works in the real world, I had to throw the whole thing out and start building truth of my own.

What would you like to have changed about Mars Hill?

Attitude toward challengers, healthier leadership,  focus more on outreach than growing the army of Mars hill.

Which describes you?

I left Mars Hill prior to closure.

Please describe why you left Mars Hill and what that experience was like.

We had been aware of some things at the church that weren't resting well with us, but thought we could be part of the change in the broken machine. While out of town on vacation I became overwhelmed suddenly with a desire to distance myself from the church, out of nowhere, my husband also had the same conviction. We decided to leave and then a few weeks later our campus pastor was asked to step  down and then in the months following, we saw lots of friends leave as well. A lot of our friends were personally hurt by the church, although this wasn't our experience, our hearts ached for them.

How would you describe the reason for Mars Hill's closure to an outsider.

Unhealthy leadership, no accountability, and the lying and spinning of everything.

What's changed for you since your time at Mars Hill came to an end?

I am not bitter about Mars hill. My years there were great, but the black and white nature of fundamentalism has messed me up. I am no longer a believer but I happily attend church with my family in an open and progressive community. I feel pretty embarrassed  to have closed my eyes and ears to the years of people pointing out problems, and I am amazed I could have been q part of an organization that treated women as less than men and didn't allow people in positions of leadership based on their gender or orientation.

Member - Portland 2012-14

Gender

Female

Which describes your role at Mars Hill?

Member

What Mars Hill location(s) did you attend?

Portland

What years were you involved / attending?

2012, 2013, 2014

How did you first hear about Mars Hill?

Through a friend at another church.

What was the circumstance of your first time attending Mars HIll?

We were in Seattle visiting friends and decided to visit.

What were your first impressions?

Pretty fun, liked that children's community was so secure and enjoyed hearing Bill Clement speak.

Why was Mars Hill your church home?

We liked the people and felt cared for by our first community groups.

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a positive impact on you?

We've learned to trust people more cautiously and God more wildly.

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a negative impact on you?

After three and a half years (we continued for a while after it was changed to a local church) we realized that we had no lasting friendships. That as much as people said they cared about us there was no interest in us or interaction outside of church. We also realized that the staff had always, to some extent, unconsciously or consciously, seen members and attendees as potential enemies, rather than as family.

What would you like to have changed about Mars Hill?

More trust in God, less self-protection, and more vision of the whole church as a team.

Which describes you?

I stayed at Mars Hill through closure.

Please describe why you stayed at Mars Hill and what that experience was like.

We saw that people we cared about were struggling and we felt that God wanted us to stay to support and love them.

How would you describe the reason for Mars Hill's closure to an outsider.

The leadership was full of distrust and self-protection. They self-protected themselves to the destruction of the church.

What's changed for you since your time at Mars Hill came to an end?

I believe that older generations are vital to the well-being of the church. That we are not called to protect ourselves but to follow Christ. We will be safe for eternity, now we are called to radical faith in Christ.

Please write anything else you'd like to add.

Before we left the church that continued post-Mars Hill we realized that, for years, we had heard about how to be a Christian more than about who Christ is
More about moral living according to the Bible than about the God who gave it to us. The teaching and moralistic focus was slowly crushing our joy. We wanted to stay, but in leaving we found more delight and peace than we had while we were there.

Regular Attender - Ballard 2008-2013

Your Name

D

Gender

Prefer not to say

Which describes your role at Mars Hill?

Regular Attender

What Mars Hill location(s) did you attend?

Ballard

What years were you involved / attending?

2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013

How did you first hear about Mars Hill?

My spouse attended

What was the circumstance of your first time attending Mars HIll?

Spouse was happy to take me to this awesome church

What were your first impressions?

Wow.  Very different from Methodist upbringing.

Why was Mars Hill your church home?

Because Mark Driscoll preached the Word of God like I'd never heard it preached.

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a positive impact on you?

I still hear some of the songs in my head and miss singing them with the congregation. I loved worshipping with others like me.  People who wore jeans.  Peasant Princess taught me about marriage.  I learned to be strong in my convictions even though the whole country is moving in an opposite direction what my beliefs are.  I won't give in to popular opinion even if it costs me my job.  

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a negative impact on you?

Seeing how people jumped on the bandwagon when the negative stories were being fed to the newspapers.  Even "friends" who we knew were lying or embellishing their stories so they could be a part of the "hate Driscoll" trend.  

What would you like to have changed about Mars Hill?

The whole book thing left a bad taste in my mouth.  Other than that I never had a problem with Mars Hill.

Which describes you?

I left Mars Hill prior to closure.

Please describe why you left Mars Hill and what that experience was like.

I left because I could no longer worship with the wolves.  Felt great to be away from them.

How would you describe the reason for Mars Hill's closure to an outsider.

The Devil won this round.

What's changed for you since your time at Mars Hill came to an end?

I no longer believe in an organized religion.  I do believe that the Devil is very pervasive in the hearts of good people.  I am sickened by the people who have sold their souls to see their names in print.  

I absolutely believe the things Driscoll has repented for actually happened.  So I am heartened to see a man who was so visible go out and tell people that he sinned and then publicly repent for that sin.  Since nobody else can forgive him, I do.

Please write anything else you'd like to add.

I am left with a lot of anger at the people who have gone on a witch hunt for Driscoll, and driven him out of Seattle with their hatred disguised as compassion.  Yet.  I know someone who was hurt when he left and I know she wan't hateful, and she was genuinely bewildered when he stepped down.  So, there were some good people caught in the crossfire.  Hope all the anti-Driscoll people are so very happy now.