Regular Attender - Albuquerque 2011-13

Gender

Female

Which describes your role at Mars Hill?

Regular Attender

What Mars Hill location(s) did you attend?

Albuquerque

What years were you involved / attending?

2011, 2012, 2013

How did you first hear about Mars Hill?

A friend of mine had been a regular at Mars Hill and asked me to go with her on several occasions

What was the circumstance of your first time attending Mars HIll?

My friend who had been a regular had been consistently and pressingly asking me to go with her. I ended up having some personal issues and decided to finally attend with her, feeling that I needed God a little more in my life at that moment.

What were your first impressions?

I felt that Mars Hill was unlike most churches I had attended. It welcomed me in my sweats, on a Thursday night I believe it was, or on a Sunday morning or night with my Starbucks in hand. The others that attended were in pajamas, sweats, business attire or nicely dressed. The homeless would walk in off of Central. Mars Hill was a judgement free zone I felt and as a Christian that is huge. I grew up in The Church of Christ where acting and dressing appropriately was not an option. You immediately felt judged and not welcome. Mars Hill was different. I felt like I could go to church, meet nice, warm, friendly people, some that were like me and some that weren't. That was all very important to me. Mark also didn't sugar coat anything. It was real. A lot of people were offended by his teachings because of that very thing, however I feel those very things are what kept me personally coming back. I am not a fake person. I don't tell you something to your face one way and act another and as Christians that's important and I feel Mark conveyed just that in his church.

Why was Mars Hill your church home?

I felt comfortable there.

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a positive impact on you?

Again I felt comfortable there. It was a place I actually WANTED to be. I learned so much there. I learned so much from Mark sympathizing, teaching, and being real there. He literally yelled to get his point across. He brought personal situations each one of us could relate to. The church he created was comfortable and judgement free. He definitely informed us when teaching that we were judged by a higher being and to a strict code of conduct and let us know that we should fear God, which it actually says all over the Bible. God is our father and he can inflict severe consequences if we don't follow him. However, Mark never made me feel literally scared about my life following God. He never told me anything on the surface I didn't, as a Christian already know, and most people as Christians do. Some people just need to be told in a different way, and he did that.

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a negative impact on you?

I do feel that towards the end of Mars Hill the dynamic towards the financials of the church were pushed harder and I'm not a huge fan of that. Yes I want to know where the money I am contributing is going, but I think it could have been done differently. I felt there was more pressure to pay more to keep the church alive "as a good Christian" so to speak and it was pushed more and more. That was a little too abrupt and bold for me.

What would you like to have changed about Mars Hill?

Only the above statement. Also I understand to get Pastor Mark to travel around to physically be present to speak has costs and isn't cheap. Travel never is and the money had to come from somewhere, however I felt the ticket prices to see a Pastor spread the word of God at our little church in Albuquerque were steep and felt that was pushed as an extra way to just pay money to the church. I wanted to meet Mark, yes. He changed my life during the time I needed God most and his teaching helped me so much as well as helping my nephew who soon attended regularly, however to pay that kind of money to see him in person seemed gimmicky and costly.

Which describes you?

I stayed at Mars Hill through closure.

Please describe why you stayed at Mars Hill and what that experience was like.

I stayed at Mars Hill because of Pastor Mark Driscoll. The way he taught was different. It was real and wasn't sugar coated. I am tired of hearing people tell me I don't live my life appropriately according to the bible when they have no room to talk and I'm tired of people telling me how Christian they are when I have watched them betray me or do things behind my back or they choose which pieces in the Bible they want to follow. Not everyone is perfect, but don't judge me when you aren't perfect either. I related to Mark because he was a person and he admitted faults and fails. He made me want to be closer to God but also taught me being imperfect is okay. That's important.

How would you describe the reason for Mars Hill's closure to an outsider.

It seems there were a few different reasons and I have not personally spoken with a Mars Hill leader. I have only gotten the news from outside sources so I wouldn't be a good advocate to explain to someone outside. I wouldn't want to give inaccurate information in one direction or another.

What's changed for you since your time at Mars Hill came to an end?

I have attended other churches but I can honestly say I have not since gone to church regularly or had the WANT to. Mars Hill never ever felt like an obligation and I could easily stay focused due to the way Mars Hill's lessons were taught. Regardless of the cold, or how tired I was, or how far away Mars Hill was I still wanted to go. I miss it

Please write anything else you'd like to add.

I wish this hadn't happened

Robb S. - Ballard 2003-07

Your Name

Robb S.

Gender

Male

Which describes your role at Mars Hill?

Member

What Mars Hill location(s) did you attend?

Ballard

What years were you involved / attending?

2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007

How did you first hear about Mars Hill?

From a friend at Antioch Bible Church who said it was a place where "everyone cool" was going to church.

What was the circumstance of your first time attending Mars HIll?

I was a college freshman and had just moved to Seattle from Redmond.  I rode the bus from U-District to Ballard with my neighbor (it was also her first time).  

What were your first impressions?

I loved the atmosphere, silent and dark.  I loved how simple everything was—just some music, a sermon that felt more like an engaging lecture, and communion.  Everything was so introspective and thoughtful, and because of the simplicity, what stood out were the words from the sermon and the songs.

Why was Mars Hill your church home?

Mars Hill felt like home to me because it felt like a church without all the cultural cruft of previous generations of American Christianity.  The music of a much higher caliber than any other church I had seen, and so disconnected from the manufactured Christian contemporary genre.  I felt like I was learning so much about the Bible from the sermons that I had never heard in my years growing up in the church and attending Christian schools.  I had a strong Christian community that ended up mostly joining the church after me so all of my close friends became my core community at the church.

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a positive impact on you?

Mars Hill introduced me to Reformed thinking which I still feel is a helpful framework to work in, even though I have some heterodox beliefs that would probably be shocking to those who are strictly Reformed.  Mars Hill showed me the potential for what "Christian" art and music could be at its best.

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a negative impact on you?

Around the time I left Seattle, I noticed that the sermons began to become more and more devoid of scriptural content, and more and more filled with anecdotes and stories from Mark Driscoll's life.  The worship service started integrating strange things like live video of the musicians performing as background for the lyrics, extensive and colorful stage lighting, and moving picture backdrops.  The aesthetic of the service had gradually pushed in a new direction that was displeasing to me and felt commercialized.  The firing of Paul Petry and Bent Meyer left a sour taste in my mouth since I had worked with Paul Petry praying for people after the services, and Bent was a close friend of a friend.  I was going to ask Paul if he would officiate my wedding.  When the 100+ page document answering everyone's questions about Paul, Bent, and the bylaws came out, I was impressed with the church's response.  Only later did I find out it was very deceitful.  This combined with a couple of close friends having extremely negative interactions with church leadership led to me having a very poor impression of the church after the fact.  At the time I attended, I didn't see much wrong, but in the years after I left Seattle, I realized the many problems that had been lurking in the background all along.

What would you like to have changed about Mars Hill?

Mars Hill before 2008 was in a relatively good place though some in the leadership were willing to lie and make moves to gain tighter control.  The bylaws dispute was obviously the major turning point where there was no going back.  The only thing that could have prevented the long slow demise would be the leadership being held to a greater level of accountability by the congregation.  This also would have required greater openness to the congregation, not the half-truths that were spun out by the leadership whenever they were caught doing something that was a PR disaster.

Which describes you?

I left Mars Hill prior to closure.

Please describe why you left Mars Hill and what that experience was like.

I left Mars Hill because I decided to go to grad school in the Midwest.  I had been in my new city for a couple months when I called the church office to tell whoever was there to put in their records that I lived in a different state and was resigning my membership.  It felt extremely anticlimactic at the time.  It was right before the membership "re-up" so they would have taken me off the rolls regardless shortly after.

How would you describe the reason for Mars Hill's closure to an outsider.

Mars Hill's senior leaders were abusive to their employees and volunteers.  They made selfish decisions regarding their own compensation, branding, marketing, etc. They ran the church less like a church and more like a corporation, using things like non-disclosure agreements, non-compete agreements for pastors, unethical bestseller list campaigns for book sales, etc.  After all these things enough people had had enough and the senior leaders were called to account.  Rather than admit they were in the wrong, they walked away.

What's changed for you since your time at Mars Hill came to an end?

I have become very liberal politically, but my religious beliefs are only slightly more progressive than before.  By all accounts I would still be considered a theological conservative and I am a member of a church that has a similar theological framework as Mars Hill did.  The church is much smaller though and I don't think I would ever attend a megachurch again.  I'm glad to give up "better" music and "better" teaching to be in a place where I can know others and be known.

Joyce Hawkinson 2001-14

Your Name

Joyce Hawkinson

Gender

Female

Which describes your role at Mars Hill?

Member, Group Leader (any leadership role)

What Mars Hill location(s) did you attend?

Ballard, Lake City / Wedgewood, Shoreline, U-District

What years were you involved / attending?

2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014

How did you first hear about Mars Hill?

My daughter was a student at SPU and told me about a Bible study leader who was being asked to move off campus because he was teaching a traditional role for women that the school didn't want to promote.

What was the circumstance of your first time attending Mars HIll?

I went to the old Paradox in the U-district to hear him teach, and it happened to be the night he first unloaded on young men about how they should value and cherish the women in their lives.  I had recently been strangled by my then-husband, and the contrast between what I had experienced and what he described made me weep.  

What were your first impressions?

He was genuine, honest about his inexperience, funny, and challenged people to live FOR Christ, not just with an awareness of Christ.  He was a little awkward, but said he had confidence that if he told the truth about what God said in the Bible, everything would be alright.  

Why was Mars Hill your church home?

Every week (and during CG) I was challenged to change -- to allow the Word to transform me from within.  The reformed (Calvinist) approach gave me a freedom to love and serve out of gratitude for grace rather than because of duty and shame.  I began to have joy in my salvation for the first time in my life!  I came to love the music, the sound lyrics, and the experience of feeling like I was singing with a band every week.  
It was also the first time I felt like inviting people to church!  I recommended MH to strangers if they were new in town, to relatives, to neighbors.  
I also felt like whatever I did to serve at MH was contributing to bringing people to Christ because lives were being changed.  
The 'gap' in late 2005, 2006 and early 2007 was caused because we lived in CA during that time, and we really missed MH and Mark Driscoll's preaching.  When we moved back, there seemed to have been a shift in his attitude, and when he spoke one Sunday about learning humility, I realized I was sensing pride.

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a positive impact on you?

The freedom of a new perspective (Calvinist over Arminian) was very positive, and continues to energize my life.  I learned more theology than in the previous decades I had been a Christian, especially when I was included in the first year of ReTrain for women.  Redemption Groups and the training to serve in that ministry have changed me and the way I relate to others.  I learned to be open about struggling with life, with belief, with grief -- being transparent had always terrified me, but as my theology deepened, I realize I had nothing to fear.  My identity comes from my King, not from what others think of me.

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a negative impact on you?

There was an arrogance to the leadership in specific places -- not all.  In a matter of discipline over his poor communication, my husband was stripped of his position as a deacon, and the CG we led and hosted was closed.  There was no opportunity for him to apologize (even when he asked for it) and no one called to see how we were doing.  In fact, the pastor wouldn't even look me in the eye at church.  There was no redemptive factor in the whole situation, which seemed to go against what the church is about.  We transferred back to Ballard, and were welcomed, trained with love (thank you Bill Clem) and given the opportunity to work through the situation (thank you Mike Wilkerson).  It became a transformative time for my husband in spite of how poorly it was handled at the outset.

What would you like to have changed about Mars Hill?

I always felt slightly like an outsider, but put it down to my age.  (I'm over 40, considerably, and that wasn't the 'target market.')  I took a leadership role in an online group for people with food allergies, but was discouraged from actually making anything happen other than online communication -- having actual meetings was not said to be efficient use of the building because turnout was difficult to predict and sometimes small.   After three gatherings I was asked to stop scheduling them even though they served the group well.  It would have been helpful to have encouragement as I served instead of having to fight for opportunities.
I would have preferred that we have governance by a board of elected elders, of which the pastor would have one vote.  Transparent and honest financial accounting would have prevented some of the problems that closed MH's doors.    

Which describes you?

I stayed at Mars Hill through closure.

Please describe why you stayed at Mars Hill and what that experience was like.

We stayed members at MH throughout the disruption although didn't attend as frequently because my husband's 90+ year-old mother had come to live with us and wanted to attend somewhere else.  Anywhere else.  The music was too loud, the pastor wasn't loud enough at times, nothing fit for her.  We continued to attend some Sunday evenings and stayed in our CG, but took her elsewhere in the morning.  It was heart-wrenching to see the disappointment and confusion in people's eyes.  We went to Bellevue a couple of Sundays to try to communicate with Mark, to encourage him, but couldn't get near him.  

How would you describe the reason for Mars Hill's closure to an outsider.

Pride led to a downfall.  There was too much power vested in one or two men (Driscoll and Turner) and not enough accountability.  That led to actions that couldn't be justified (the Bestseller List deception and the lies about how profits were going back to MH when they actually went into funds for his family that the church would get eventually, after he died.

What's changed for you since your time at Mars Hill came to an end?

My beliefs in God are solid, but my eagerness to attend church has waned.  We are members at another church and serve faithfully, but it's much easier to consider missing a Sunday than it used to be.  I pray for the leadership who so sadly messed up something that God was using because of their pride and greed.  At the same time, I recognize that in God's sovereignty, He is using even this mess for His glory.  
I miss the music, and I miss Mark's sense of humor and unique perspective.  

Rick Gutierrez 2011-14

Your Name

Rick Gutierrez

Gender

Male

Which describes your role at Mars Hill?

Regular Attender

What Mars Hill location(s) did you attend?

Orange County / Huntington Beach

What years were you involved / attending?

2011, 2012, 2013, 2014

How did you first hear about Mars Hill?

Heard about Mark Driscoll first, through videos shown at our church, and consequently discovered Mars Hill.

What was the circumstance of your first time attending Mars HIll?

My wife and I attended the first exploratory meetings for Mars Hill OC at a church in Irvine.

What were your first impressions?

Well-balanced with an excellent focus on community and mission. There was a strong impression that the leadership had everything together.

Why was Mars Hill your church home?

We (my wife and I) decided after much prayer and discussion to leave our current church to join the mission and take the opportunity to be in community close to our home.

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a positive impact on you?

There were times where we experienced love and prayerful support from many that we were in community with. We also experienced conviction through the preached word often.

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a negative impact on you?

It became quickly apparent through conversations with CG leaders that there was clearly a target demographic to be reached. It meant practically that our city (La Mirada) was only deemed worthy of attention because it was home to Biola University. We also slowly became aware of a lot of "branding". Things we'd taken to be impactful, were repeated so often as to become "mantras" or slogans.
As our family grew and our responsibilities increased outside of church, we felt kind of left behind, perhaps because we weren't contributing tangibly to the mission. While giving faithfully, church services never missed an opportunity to aggressively solicit more and greater contributions. We were also made to feel that cuts to newly hired staff who'd given up their other employment to serve the church were directly the result of our lack of generosity. When things started to unravel, our questions and concerns were turned on us, and when we persisted, our leaders seemed like they were being forced to deflect and divert us from those concerns by entreating us to trust those shepherds who were over us, though they also seemed confused and frustrated, even while toe-ing the party line. My wife and I waited and waited for someone in leadership to show some courageous support for people's concerns, but no one stepped out from under the umbrella. Also, we never heard what felt like a true, uncomfortable raw acknowledgement of the struggles that we the church were dealing with. Everything was so couched in soft, slippery language. It was so heartbreaking and frustrating.

What would you like to have changed about Mars Hill?

What's to be changed? Sadly repentance was never proclaimed, and very few if any took real responsibility for their actions and behavior. God saw fit to tear down a business pretending to be a "church-facilitating structure". God saw fit to expose abuse and misappropriation of tithes and offerings. He saw fit to expose pride and wordy ambition. He rescued those that are His from being led astray. I'm thankful for that. He taught me what it looks like when career is to be more valued than the gospel. By His grace, may I never find myself there.

Which describes you?

I left Mars Hill prior to closure.

Please describe why you left Mars Hill and what that experience was like.

Our experience was more of a gradual lack of enthusiasm for attending. The insistence that we sing our hearts out when there was such a heaviness attached to everything without a real acknowledging the validity of the heaviness. Yes, Jesus was and is bigger than those issues, but we did not experience any comfort from that truth. As many things were being revealed about the goings-on at the administrative level, our prayer was for leadership to repent and for God to be glorified through it. What better, more amazing way for God to be glorified than through the repentance of such influential leadership? Wouldn't we be willing to lose an empire AND the influence that comes with it in order to repent and bring glory to God? It became clear that it wasn't going to happen, though we never stopped praying for it. We knew we were done with Mars Hill though. We felt abandoned by our shepherds. We began to question our own understanding of what "church" should be. We'd been seeking "the right way" for so long, and had fallen short, perhaps by leaning on our own understanding, who knows. Now we just don't know anymore, and have grown weary with trying. We are no longer sure of much in the way of modern church culture, and are currently unaffiliated with any brick and mortar meeting.

How would you describe the reason for Mars Hill's closure to an outsider.

A dynamic personality with the ability to preach to a particular need in the culture found a niche that grew into an empire of modern church business. As ambition for more growth became the goal, the undergirding motives were exposed. God brought judgement on the people and practices that brought the name of Christ into disrepute.

What's changed for you since your time at Mars Hill came to an end?

Since we left Mars Hill, we've been very tentative about where to attend. We've resolved that we will find a church that serves our local community, where we can be truly involved in sharing life with one another. We're definitely trying not to be douchebags about our theological bent. We've been forced to acknowledge that many people who don't have the same understanding as us theologically are far more submitted to loving Christ and others. All I know right now is that I don't know much. I realize how trite that sounds, but it can't be more truly stated than that.

Please write anything else you'd like to add.

We are a bit fearful of being taken in by another dynamic personality or attractive system. I think we've learned that appearing to do everything so well as a "church" is no affirmation of its true affiliation with Christ. Things are broken. And people are broken. Life is broken until Jesus returns to make it new. Until then, perhaps we're given just enough to get by. Our sinful selves can't handle much more than that without screwing it up.

Jennifer Roach 2002-03

Your Name

Jennifer Roach

Gender

Female

Which describes your role at Mars Hill?

Member, Group Leader (any leadership role)

What Mars Hill location(s) did you attend?

Ballard

What years were you involved / attending?

2002, 2003

How did you first hear about Mars Hill?

On the internet

What was the circumstance of your first time attending Mars HIll?

We moved to Seattle and lived a short distance from the Ballard building, which was the only campus at the time.

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a negative impact on you?

Mark's abusive attitude toward women - which was cloaked in being "doctrinally sound" - had the most negative impact on me. When Mark and I disagreed on something, he decided to write an open letter to my husband telling him, "shut your wife up, or I'll shut her up for you."  He used threats and power plays from the very beginning.

Which describes you?

I left Mars Hill prior to closure.

Please describe why you left Mars Hill and what that experience was like.

When we left, we lost all of our friends.  We were shunned by everyone.  I received anonymous emails from several men in the church, one of whom said that I was, "an adulterous whore" for trying to "take Mark down."  Another said that he understood that I did these things because I was mentally ill.

How would you describe the reason for Mars Hill's closure to an outsider.

Mark's narcissistic and toxic leadership style.

What's changed for you since your time at Mars Hill came to an end?

Our family has moved on to a liturgical church where there is far less possibility of the "celebrity pastor" culture that Mars Hill had.