Showing posts with label Male. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Male. Show all posts

John - Ballard, Bellevue 2006-14

Your Name

John

Gender

Male

Which describes your role at Mars Hill?

Regular Attender

What Mars Hill location(s) did you attend?

Ballard, Bellevue

What years were you involved / attending?

2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014

How did you first hear about Mars Hill?

In 2006 my daughter graduated from high school and decided to attend Seattle Pacific University (a bad decision we would both agree, but that's a story for another time).  She had read "Body Piercing Saved My Life" and from it had heard about Mark Driscoll (the "cussing pastor") and Mars Hill.  We talked about it while I was driving her to Seattle and thought we should visit when we got there.

What was the circumstance of your first time attending Mars HIll?

During the time she was getting settled in at SPU we decided to visit Mars Hill Ballard.

What were your first impressions?

I was impressed—stunned might be a better word—by the number of people at the church who were under the age of 30, and especially that there were young men there.  This was in sharp contrast to our home church at the time which, despite being in a large college town, had very few younger people attending.  I was also impressed by Mark's preaching.

Why was Mars Hill your church home?

Since I attended only sporadically when I was visiting Seattle, Mars Hill  was my "church home" in the sense that I listened regularly to Mark's messages and gave financially to Mars Hill—quite generously, as it turned out, although I didn't know it at the time.  We were, as a family fully invested in the church as much as we could be given we live over a thousand miles from Seattle.

We did what we did because we believed in the what the church was trying to do:  reach young men with the gospel, teach sound theology, and grow families.

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a positive impact on you?

Mars Hill, and Mark specifically, kept me involved in the church. At the time I first learned about Mars Hill and Mark I was in a very dark time personally. I had been serving and worshipping in a local church, but I had not found a “tribe” where I felt I belonged. I was convinced (and still believe) that such a tribe didn’t (and doesn’t) exist locally, but Mars Hill seemed to be the kind of place where I could find such a group. While I was in no position to uproot myself and my wife and move to Seattle, I had the hope that someday I would be able to participate in Mars Hill. I had planned to spend my retirement hanging around the church picking up trash, cleaning toilets, and setting out chairs.
It also got me interested in theology in a way that I had not experienced before. Mark had (and I believe still has) a gift for illuminating scripture I had not seen before, and I fell in love with his expository preaching and going through complete books of the Bible (which doesn’t allow skipping over the hard parts). Since then I’ve sought out other great preachers and teachers such as Tim Keller, John Piper, and DA Carson, but as good as they are they can’t quite replace Mark.

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a negative impact on you?

Ironically, the thing that bothered me the most was their legalism.  Ironic because Mars Hill preached—correctly, in most areas—freedom in Christ, but practiced a strict extra-Biblical legalism centered around the relationships between men and women.  Two examples might be illustrative.

The first involves a young man who was exactly the kind of man Mars Hill wanted men to be:  dedicated to following Jesus, hard-working (with a career, not just a "job"), kind and generous, and ready to settle down and start a family.  But whenever he would approach any of the women in the church he had to run a gauntlet of questions like, "What are your intentions with this lady?"  He confided in me that he would get this line of questioning after doing something as innocuous as having a cup of coffee together Starbucks.  His response was to shy away from pursuing any relationship with women in the church and look elsewhere for a potential mates.

The second involves a young woman who had moved away from the church because of the pain of "Christians" condemning her because of what she wore (mostly black clothing, required by her job), her job (working in the fashion industry), her tattoos and piercings, and other open-handed issues.  Deciding to give Jesus another chance, she moved to Seattle to attend Mars Hill.  One Sunday shortly afterwards was serving as a greeter (at the invitation of her small group leader) when she was approached by another woman who told her, "Your leggings are causing the married men to stumble".  There are so many things wrong with this, starting with not taking the time to learn how many people had hoped and prayed for her to get her back into Christian fellowship.  Fortunately, her small group leader came to her rescue and supported her and she was able to take it in stride.  (Her partner in greeting was wearing Daisy Dukes and was not taken to task for her dress.)

What would you like to have changed about Mars Hill?

Mark.

The other things were peripheral outgrowths of Mark's inability to recognize his weaknesses and allow God to change him.  If that had happened many of the other things wouldn't have happened or would have been dealt with more constructively.

Which describes you?

I stayed at Mars Hill through closure.

Please describe why you stayed at Mars Hill and what that experience was like.

I stayed with Mars Hill to the very end, hoping that some good would come from everything.  But there was so much chaos in my personal life at that time that it was just one other painful thing to be endured.  During the time Mars Hill was coming apart, my father-in-law passed away and my children were present when a good friend took his life leaving behind wife and young son.  The kids, who were at Mars Hill at that time, could have used support from the church, but as things were falling apart the church couldn't effectively help them.  It was a horrible mess.

How would you describe the reason for Mars Hill's closure to an outsider.

From my perspective, there were two problems:  immature elder leadership and Mark's unwillingness to follow sound advice.

I used to find it amusing with some 25-year old kid who has been a Christian for all of three years is an "elder" in the church.  Having seen the damage that they can do I no longer find it amusing.

I understand that younger people can have more energy and have fresh ideas that the church needs, but often that enthusiasm can, if not guided by wisdom, lead the church to do great harm.  Wisdom is not something that can be gained just by a class or earning a degree in theology or by reading scripture.  Wisdom comes from experience (and experience from making un-wise choices).  As the catchphrase from the Farmer's Insurance advertisements currently running on TV say, "We know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two".

I've been a Christian now for 44 years and over that time I've seen people do some really stupid things.  I've seen Christians do some really stupid things in the name of Christ.  I've seen people do things that didn't appear to be stupid at first but that were in the end.  Some of these things were at Mars Hill, and when they were happening I knew that this would not end well.  I'm not the most mature nor the wisest person, and I would make a terrible elder, but there are men who could have served Mars Hill as elder leadership and kept the church from hurling itself on the rocks.

However, even if Mars Hill had had an elder board composed of wise, older, mature Christians, Mark, by his own admission, would not have listened to them.  Mark had sh*t that he needed to deal with but didn't.  I don't know Mark's heart and where he is now, but I pray that he has or will deal with his sh*t.

All of this is unfortunate because if these things had been done we wouldn't be where we are now.

What's changed for you since your time at Mars Hill came to an end?

I find myself in the same place I was 10 years ago—wondering where I fit in the church... or if I fit at all.  I have books and podcasts to feed the intellectual side my soul but I've pretty much given up on finding a tribe or a meaningful place to serve.

Please write anything else you'd like to add.


Oh, what could have been.

Rick - Orange County 2012-14

Your Name

Rick

Gender

Male

Which describes your role at Mars Hill?

Regular Attender, Member, Group Leader (any leadership role)

What Mars Hill location(s) did you attend?

Orange County / Huntington Beach

What years were you involved / attending?

2012, 2013, 2014

How did you first hear about Mars Hill?

In 2011 my old church was going through a rough season, factions were fighting, and my dad found a sermon of this guy guest preaching at John Piper's church. This sermon was fiery, captivating, and frankly the best sermon I had ever heard. From then I began to podcast Mars Hill and Mark Driscoll.

What was the circumstance of your first time attending Mars HIll?

I moved to SoCal for college, when I heard there was a Mars Hill in Orange County I immediately started attending and got plugged in.

What were your first impressions?

I loved it, there have only been a few churches where I walked in and immediately felt like I belonged. I'm not cool or a hipster, but the atmosphere was awesome and I fell in love with the people of Mars Hill.

Why was Mars Hill your church home?

Because God made my community group my spiritual family. Because in community I finally understood grace and freedom in Christ. Because I believed God called me there.

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a positive impact on you?

I learned how impactful missional communities can be in a church. I learned how to take ownership of my church by serving. I learned that there are good and innovative ways to do church besides what I grew up with.

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a negative impact on you?

How Christianity failed me, how it failed Mars Hill. I believe all churches have shit, and all churches need to work through their shit when called out. What Christianity did was point to and yell about the shit they saw and condemned us. There were problems, and people only saw problems.
I am frankly bitter to this day towards Matt Chandler and Acts 29  because of how he handled his rebuke of Driscoll. Matt Chandler in his attempt to rebuke Driscoll gave the fuel to destroy Mars Hill. He "excommunicated" the whole church. His actions empowered the unloving critics and lead people like me to despair. He hurt me, he robbed me of my church family.
Chandler is not alone, in my view 90% of Christians condemned and rejected Mars Hill, Driscoll, and therefore me. There was little to no grace.

What would you like to have changed about Mars Hill?

1. Leadership structure.
I believe that the structure was put in place with good intentions. I think that as the church grew and leaders become more separated in distance and relationship decisions were slower and less united. Thus, centralizing leadership in the executive elders was meant to keep the church on mission, on task, and keep advancing the gospel.
This was a mistake. Centralized authority robbed the local elders of their ability to lead well, especially at Orange County. Centralized authority caused issues to never be fully addressed. Centralized authority caused distance between our leaders and the people of Mars Hill.
Authority should have been equal among elders. If size and distance made this a problem, maybe that meant we were too big or separated to be one church.
2. Women in leadership.
I believe women should be free and empowered to lead as God calls them. I am a complementarian who doesn't believe in female eldership or pastorship. But other than that, women are free to serve and lead throughout the church. Mark from the beginning emphasized men, which was refreshing to me, but this emphasis lead to women not being in significant leadership.
This impacted the culture in negative ways.
3. Share the pulpit.
Mark preached most of the time, but I think he should have shared the pulpit with other Mars Hill pastors on a regular basis. I think at least once a month. Guest preachers were great, but we needed to be taught and led by our local elders.
4. Less traveling for Driscoll.
At times it felt like we were facilitating Driscoll's Christian Rockstar status, rather than being served by him. Teaching is serving, but it felt like the people were incidental. I think he should and could have spent more time with the people of Mars Hill. Maybe that would have made him aware of issued before they became scandals.
5. Don't plant campuses out of state, plant churches.
I think the multi-site church concept is a great idea in a city or close region, like Seattle and the Puget Sound. But frankly, I never felt like I was in the same church as Everett or Bellevue. Mars Hill Orange County was not a part of the 'one church many locations'. We were a controlled church in the Mars Hill church network. They should have planted an independent church rather than have 1,000 miles between us and our "church family."
6. Less or no video teaching.
Let others preach, collaborate with the elders and let them preach.

Which describes you?

I stayed at Mars Hill through closure.

Please describe why you stayed at Mars Hill and what that experience was like.

Dustin Kensrue's letter was strong and resonated with me. One thing he wrote was to set a date to expect change, and if no change came, than you should consider leaving. This was in August 2014 for me. I prayed about it, and the Lord told me to see through the end of the year. As it turned out, that was how much longer the church had. Thus, I remained until the end.

How would you describe the reason for Mars Hill's closure to an outsider.

We were a church that grew aggressively, had problems, and were neck deep in controversy. For a long time we were led by the elders at the top of the food chain, and they made mistakes. When Driscoll stepped down and all the elders were allowed to make a decision they decided to separate into our own local church bodies to decide our future from there.
My location, Mars Hill OC, decided to close down rather than try to keep going. We had lost so many people, and our leaders were burned out.
So yes, Mars Hill is gone. But now there are many churches born from Mars Hill that still worship and proclaim Jesus. And that is a comforting thought.  

What's changed for you since your time at Mars Hill came to an end?

I was angry with my local elders for closing down Mars Hill OC for a while. But I've come to understand and move towards forgiveness in that.

Please write anything else you'd like to add.

I still miss Mars Hill. It was an amazing community to be a part of. I wish we could have worked through our shit rather than walking away from it. I learned a lot and grew a lot in my time there. I have no regrets about being a member there until the end.

Sam - Ballard, Shoreline 2004-09

Your Name

Sam

Gender

Male

Which describes your role at Mars Hill?

Regular Attender

What Mars Hill location(s) did you attend?

Ballard, Shoreline

What years were you involved / attending?

2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009

How did you first hear about Mars Hill?

A family that was very close friends with my family for most of my life was a large part of Mars Hill from almost the beginning of the church, and they invited us to join. They were soon kicked out of the church because of the father's disagreement with Pastor Mark's leadership, but my family stayed, until almost the end of the church.

What was the circumstance of your first time attending Mars HIll?

The family that we were very close to invited my family to come. We came, and my parents were uncertain whether they wanted to stay or not, because they didn't like how big of a church it was. My dad was an elder in the last church we went to, and he and my mom wanted to leave because they weren't happy with the way the pastor was handling the church's money (how ironic).  They ended up deciding to stay, because they liked Pastor Mark's sermons

What were your first impressions?

I was a teenager, and Mars Hill was just so much more exciting than the churches I had attended before. The music especially was great, considering how I always hated Christian rock. Here was creative, enjoyable music that was also Christian without being boring. That, and there were a lot of young, cool people to get to know

Why was Mars Hill your church home?

I was a teenager at the time, and I was also homeschooled, so it was at church that I made the most friends my age. I was very active in the youth group, "Proxy." Even after I "graduated" from Proxy, I volunteered occasionally as a youth leader.

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a positive impact on you?

I was at Mars Hill during my formative years, so it's hard to discern what was good and what was bad. I'll say this: I've had the best bible study groups in Proxy than anywhere else in my life. We would tackle really difficult theological issues, like the problem is evil, and the nature of God; things that we clearly had no answer to, but we enjoyed discussing none the less.

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a negative impact on you?

I had a lot of ideas implanted in my head, since I was so young, that I really disagree with now. For example, gender roles: the idea that women shouldn't be leaders, men must be the head of the household, and the patriarch is extremely important; that homosexuality is evil; that anything sexual outside of marriage is sinful and should be fiercely monitored; etc. The biggest thing of all though, is being told that I must always submit to authority, that I can make no decisions without the say-so of people older than me. That really broke me, when I found out that I disagreed with my elders; it was hard to not feel guilty for something I shouldn't have felt guilty for

What would you like to have changed about Mars Hill?

Almost everything that had to do with doctrine. If it was a large collective of people who loved Jesus, and loved people, and loved creative music and art, and formed close, constructive relationships with each other, without trying to form everyone into one church, believing in only one doctrine, being led by leaders that think the way one person tells them to think. Mark used to brag about how he wasn't the lead pastor of the church, how he "couldn't even get into the church by himself, because he didn't have the keys." Turns out it wasn't that way at all

Which describes you?

I left Mars Hill prior to closure.

Please describe why you left Mars Hill and what that experience was like.

At first, I left Mars Hill because I went to college out of town. At that time I grew intellectually, and found I disagreed with almost everything I was taught at Mars Hill. When I came home to Seattle, I found a lot of my closest friends from Mars Hill and Proxy felt the same way. Soon after that, I had a profound experience that made me realize that I was no longer a Christian, and it was the most freeing feeling in my life. I had originally thought I had found salvation and grace at Mars Hill, but I felt it more profoundly after leaving

How would you describe the reason for Mars Hill's closure to an outsider.

Well, it became a huge community of people who loved each other, and were connected under the belief of a loving Christ, and Mark Driscoll tried to control it for egotistical reasons and with manipulative actions, and it drove people against each other, until it all collapsed.

What's changed for you since your time at Mars Hill came to an end?

Not a Christian, and happy for it.

Barry - Downtown Seattle 2012-14

Your Name

Barry

Gender

Male

Which describes your role at Mars Hill?

Regular Attender

What Mars Hill location(s) did you attend?

Downtown Seattle

What years were you involved / attending?

2012, 2013, 2014

How did you first hear about Mars Hill?

It was recommended to me by a pastor in Denver

What was the circumstance of your first time attending Mars Hill?

I attended the Ballard location for the first time.  All I could remember was that the church was big.

What were your first impressions?

It was in mind too big and impersonal for my taste.

Why was Mars Hill your church home?

Over the next couple of years, I determined I wanted to be a part of the church, so I started attending the (then Belltown) downtown location.

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a positive impact on you?

I served in the children's ministry.  I met a bunch of lasting friends that he either led or been in community groups, or had been in the Children's ministry.  It was wonderful sharing God's work with fellow believers.

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a negative impact on you?

It became too big, too fast.  And I really did not like the pre-recorded sermons.  Where Mark taught from Ballard or Belleview, or overseas.

What would you like to have changed about Mars Hill?

Have each location doing live-preaching.

Which describes you?

I left Mars Hill prior to closure.

Please describe why you left Mars Hill and what that experience was like.

I just did not trust Mark.  He was too distant.  I was also spiritually lazy.  

How would you describe the reason for Mars Hill's closure to an outsider.

I really was not devastated.  I left before I invested too much time or energy into the church.

What's changed for you since your time at Mars Hill came to an end?

I started attending Downtown Cornerstone Church.  I got involved there.

Please write anything else you'd like to add.

I am saddened that MH Church crumbled.  That Mark Driscoll remains unrepentant (as far as I know).  It was a great church.  And it fell hard.  I pray for all who were hurt from the fall.

Shawn Nickerson 2009-13

Your Name

Shawn Nickerson

Gender

Male

Which describes your role at Mars Hill?

Group Leader (any leadership role)

What Mars Hill location(s) did you attend?

Bellevue

What years were you involved / attending?

2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013

How did you first hear about Mars Hill?

Podcasts and a few friends from college had been attending.

What was the circumstance of your first time attending Mars HIll?

My wife and I had been looking for a church since we moved to the area.

What were your first impressions?

I was confused why there were so many candles and black curtains, and the video sermon took me back, but Mark's words captured my attention, it was powerful.

Why was Mars Hill your church home?

Because of the relationships I had and the opportunity to love on others.

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a positive impact on you?

I have learned an infinite amount about faith through the entire process. I have been able to learn what is important, and become much less self righteous.

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a negative impact on you?

I have suffered relationally in the community, I was maligned and the elders told church members to have nothing to do with me. The Real Marriage series placed an unneeded stress on my marriage that heightened expectations where they did not need to be, and I am still reaping the consequences. One particular pastor told me 'shit doesn't flow upstream', and I believed him, that was a horrible mistake.

What would you like to have changed about Mars Hill?

Treat people like people instead of $$

Which describes you?

I left Mars Hill prior to closure.

Please describe why you left Mars Hill and what that experience was like.

I wrote this note to the congregation on June 11, 2013 shortly before my city account was deleted.

Family,
I am writing to let you know that my family and I are retracting our membership at Mars Hill Church. I want you to know this from me so there is little room for confusion.

You need to know that this decision is not made lightly. We LOVE you. You have been in our home, in our lives and hearts, and I pray that does not cease because of this decision.

We have had doubts about MHB being the most effective place for us to make disciples, primarily because a disagreement on ecclesiology, how we do church. My heart is to pour into brothers and sisters on a personal, loving basis, and as we do that our love for Christ and each other overflows into the community and our circles of influence. We are each called to be missionaries, not to only engage in service to make an attractional Sunday gathering operate. I love and appreciate you for the countless hours you serve the body, but I say that knowing you aren't equipped as well as you should be to be missionaries on the weekdays. I say this to outline the difference of opinion, not to critique.

I recently voiced this concern along with a desire to promote a culture that embraces questions as a family, instead of hushing with fear. It is undeniable that we as a church have a reputation for doing that. Katy and I were considering leaving the church. I was forthcoming with this fact. With trepidation, I sat down with Pastor AJ and Darin Ault, (on Thursday of this last week), who heard me out with patience and lovingly recommended that I should not leave, that it would hurt the church, and we could work together for reconciliation. I was told I would be able to come to church on Sunday and have my membership and leadership role fully intact. I was touched by the meeting and genuinely prayed about it with Katy. I was given a deadline of Monday to respond whether or not I would be staying.

The next day, Friday, I attended a Head Coach meeting, where several of the men repented to me for speaking ill of me behind my back, and not loving me in a Pastoral way. I was really excited to see the Holy Spirit moving in this way! I expressed a desire to continue on as a member and servant in the church.

Pastor Josh offered to start meeting with me to be a support and work some of these questions out.

I worshipped with you and the body on Sunday at the 12:30 service, where several of the elders looked me in the eye and shook my hand, but had not real interactions with me.

I arrived on Monday morning expecting to to see Josh, but both he and Darin were there there. After some chit chat, I am informed that I have been removed from all 'positional leadership', under the reason of 'redemptive care'. This entire time, no sins have been brought against me other than having 'horrible timing and a shitty tone of voice', which was addressed by no one other than AJ. To say the least, I was stunned and confused. I left that meeting with a very nebulous plan of meeting up with Josh, and taking an undetermined break from any and all leadership roles in the church. I have no desire to take a break, or specific reason to.

I tell you this not because I want vindication, but because I have seen this pattern played out with so many before me, and I am afraid it will continue on with many of you.

A leadership that is not engaged in community, and does not know the people can not shepherd well. You have been in my home, drank my wine, seen me rejoice and weep. I have lived truthfully and transparently among you.

My genuine desire has been to love the church of Christ for the longest time. I always thought that I would pursue vocational ministry, and have a strong desire and calling to plant a church. That is the next step in our journey. Katy and I are planning to plant a church here in Bellevue in the coming months. We will be meeting in our home for the next few months.

I pray for you! I pray for Christ's church! For the leaders at MH, that there would be repentance and true relationship. I will likely be spoken of poorly after this message is seen, and in the time after we are gone. While that grieves me, it grieves me even more to see people go unloved or half loved. My heart is to see you loved and cared for well, and I hope to spark a conversation.

I still plan to meet with the MHB elders to listen and receive instruction from them for where they believe I have sinned, and will take that with great gravity. I have been removed from all groups on the city as of today, so you are no longer able to contact me there.

I don't pretend to be perfect. You know me, flaws, failures, highs lows and successes. I pray you will seek to live out in community in bold ways that glorify Jesus as the end game, not yourself or an organization.
Be a disciple, and disciple others. My home is always open to all of you, and I pray we continue in fellowship for decades to come. Have I sinned against you? Matt 5:23 says we are to not take communion while we have something against, or someone has sinned against us. I don’t believe that we have taken that command seriously enough, and for that I repent. Please call me up for coffee so I can reconcile and we can both be obedient to the Gospel. I would love to talk face to face with you.

Much Love,
Shawn

How would you describe the reason for Mars Hill's closure to an outsider.

After I started asking questions about unscrupulous practices I was 'removed from all positional authority'. I chose to leave after being promised one thing, then lied to by the 'pastors' at Bellevue.

What's changed for you since your time at Mars Hill came to an end?

My church is all of God's people. If Christ has invited anyone to the table who am I to say they are disinvited?